Introspection. Feh.

[aquabean]

From an email conversation with someone who might actually recognize it when they see it. Cleaning out my inbox and it was discovered... sometimes I say these things that are applicable in so many ways, to so many things.


At some point along the line we decided that even friendship is inherently selfish. There are those who feel that people take part in relationships because we care about them when really, you and I feel that we do it because we want them to care about us.

This isn't to say we don't care. We do. It's simply that often times our ability -- desire? -- to care is directly proportional to the amount we perceive others care for us. Because we admit we're unsure of our relationship to the rest of the world, to the people around us, we then view all attention directed our way, with inherent suspicion. We don't trust our own feelings for others, we certainly can't trust their feelings for us.

Comments

[karotsamused.livejournal.com]

*huff* While I'm pleased you're using the icon, -ow-.

*puts head down* Cyyyyyyyynic

[runefallstar.livejournal.com]

*wry* I prefer the term 'fatalist.'

[ranalore.livejournal.com]

I still think this is a turnaround experienced by everyone of a certain cynical bent who has had so many relationships in which we perceive ourselves as giving so much and the other person as not giving as much and demanding even more. The cynicism may not have manifested prior to that situation (or it may have, as I was told I was cynical even as a baby), but I do think the inclination toward it has to be there in order for this conclusion to be reached.

[runefallstar.livejournal.com]

You and I have had conversations along these same lines before. Where the odd sort of almost-guilt comes in, is in the way that we're always told that we're supposed to give selflessly to everyone else without ever asking for anything in return. The cynicism kicks in and suddenly none of it makes as much sense any more.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

You know, I've felt the exact same way, but I have to say: is that so wrong? Is it so selfish?

The opposite perspective to relationships is to give unconditionally, without regard to what you recieve in return, and it's easy to see how that can go overboard, or be driven by an unhealthy impulse towards self-sacrifice. Perhaps it's only logical to want to be with people who appreciate you as much as you appreiciate them; anything else is quite often a waste of your time.

[runefallstar.livejournal.com]

All of which is quite logically true.

It's rather hard to remove from one's hard wiring, however, the firmly ingrained mantra of "don't be an imposition." Because that's what friendship, or any relationship, really, can become; an exercise in trying not to ask for too much.

Heh. It's the deciding just how much effort on their part you're actually worth that's hard.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

*grins* Yeah, I know what you mean. It's always much easier to say something than it is to do it.

I use to have this paranoid fear that I was the girl who no one liked, but who no one wanted to hurt by telling her to leave. You know. The one who no one really cares if she sits at the lunch table, or if she talks to you in class, but it's annoying to have to spend time with her outside. I dealt with it by appreciating any time people wanted to spend with me, but never pressing for anything more. So I'd talk to them, go to movies, go to lunch, have phone conversations, etc, etc, but I'd never intiate anything myself, because I didn't want them to feel like they had to say yes. I got over it, mostly, when I realized that acting that way was actually losing me more friends than it was keeping, since everyone thought I didn't like them. But I spent too many years doing it to be entirely over it; I still hardly ever will start an IM conversation or a phone call, and I pretty much never start conversations with people I don't know.

So, um, yeah. Heh. I totally know where you're coming from.

[ravenclaw42.livejournal.com]

I know exactly how that feels and it hurts. Right now me and one of my closest friends are on incredibly rocky ground and it's largely due to the fact that we somehow got ourselves in a self-perpetuating cycle of being asses to each other. I struggle not to automatically dismiss the things he says just because he does the same to me. I like to think that I'm pretty easygoing and easy to be friends with, but he's shutting me out completely and that is not worth hanging on to. But I can't really find it in myself to think that I'm wrong for distancing myself from him just because he provides me no comfort and more than a little hurt. Is it selfish of me, or not? Almost impossible to answer.

It's all very backwards and confusing. And now you've got me thinking all cynical and philosophical. Stop that.

[runefallstar.livejournal.com]

That happened to me in high school actually. I'm a rather snarky person and K and I just got stuck. Eventually we moved past it but it took actual talking and a willingness to listen that we weren't ready to deal with in the beginning. I was in her wedding last summer, so obviously we got past it. Heh.

The thing is, I know exactly how you feel about the distancing. My automatic reaction to people who push me away, even in the slightest, is to let go and walk away. Not healthy, per say, but certainly rather terribly pragmatic. They can't hurt you if you've already let go. And yes, it's selfish, but when it comes to keeping ourselves safe, I have to say that it's almost silly to expect anything else.

*wry grin* Then again, I'm a mite fatalistic about these kinds of things, so take me with a fair amount of salt.

[snowyheart.livejournal.com]

Mmmn--I feel the same as wordsofastory, up there. Friendship at its core, to me, is an exchange, where you and the other person make an unspoken agreement to just plain care about each other. I don't feel as if there's anything wrong with that, at all--nor that there's anything wrong with the idea that the ability/desire to care has to do with the care we get. IMHO, feeling that way is more of a sign of healthy self-respect than selfishness, really. Caring with nothing or very little in return sounds like a beautiful thing, but it really... simply hurts far too much to sustain.

An inherent distrust of attention and feelings... unfortunately, sometimes is necessary. True and worthwhile feelings from others, I think, have the stamina to outlast our own suspicions.

♥ I hope you're doing all right-- *hugs*

[nightfallrising.livejournal.com]

IMHO, feeling that way is more of a sign of healthy self-respect than selfishness, really. Caring with nothing or very little in return sounds like a beautiful thing, but it really... simply hurts far too much to sustain.

Seconded. Not healthy at all.

[nightfallrising.livejournal.com]

Likewise, when you come out of every interaction with someone feeling like you're not worth their time, it's probably time to take your investment in your relationship with them a step back.

[runefallstar.livejournal.com]

True. One has to wonder at how long it takes sometimes, this realizing that things aren't even.

It's the going into everything like it's already uneven that I've realized bothers me most.

[runefallstar.livejournal.com]

It's the weight of the exchange that I question. How much a person can ask for in any given moment, because what if what's being asked isn't equivalent? Knowing that often times I want more or different things than what I'm getting makes me wonder what everyone else around me really wants.

*hugs* And I'm good. *smiles* Just, you know, being all introspective and philosophical.